Curse

ShadeSWG · Feb 27, 2011, 06:22 PM // 18:22

I've thrown together this build that I've had a lot of fun with in PvE, not sure how it works in PvP though. It's a fair bit of sustained DPS that works pretty well and feels pretty easy to use.

Way of the Assassin (E)
Critical Eye
Critical Agility (PvE)
Way of Perfection
Golden Fox Strike
Wild Strike
Repeating Strike
Death Blossom

Critical Strikes 12+1+1
Dagger Mastery 12+1
Shadow Arts 3+1

Basically, the build gets your crit up to 61% (If my basic math is right), allowing you to spam Repeating Strike and keep your energy high with crits. If you happen to run into a string of bad luck without crits, you can usually just auto-attack for awhile to bring your energy up. If RS happens to miss, or you need a little more damage nonetheless, Death Blossom is a nice little attack. In PvP, you can substitute Critical Defenses pretty easily.

Any criticism would be appreciated >.>

saint666 · Feb 27, 2011, 06:34 PM // 18:34

why spam RS when u can spam DB?

JS
FF
DB

or

DB
MS

ShadeSWG · Feb 27, 2011, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by saint666

why spam RS when u can spam DB?

JS
FF
DB

or

DB
MS

The first chain seems interesting, I think I'll play with it a little bit. It would be better against multiple enemies as opposed to just doing damage to a single target, but I don't know how the DPS would compare. I'll play with it a little. However, I was trying to avoid the MS/DB combo, I wanted to try something a little different.

Tyris Requiem · Feb 27, 2011, 07:09 PM // 19:09

Don't use repeating strike its terrible dps. The most powerful assassin builds use fast lead and offhands so they can spam out the more powerful dual attacks.

Jagged Strike, Fox Fangs, Death Blossom is a typical PvE spam chain.

Jagged and Fox Fangs both have 1/2 activation times allowing you to pull off more death blossoms and pump out damage faster overall.

In PvP due to increased recharges extra offhand/dual attacks are needed so u can keep spamming while they recharge.

Jagged, Fox Fangs + Wild Strike/Golden Fang, Death Blossom + Critical Strike would be typical of a PvP spam chain.

Sometimes golden fang is used as a single offhand on its own. If Fox Fangs is used u almost always see a second offhand for while its on recharge.

Xsiriss · Feb 27, 2011, 07:27 PM // 19:27

Nothing new. In PvP high dps chains are preferred and for pve you're better of spamming death blossom and using a better elite.

Bandwagon · Feb 27, 2011, 09:29 PM // 21:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xsiriss

Nothing new. In PvP high dps chains are preferred and for pve you're better of spamming death blossom and using a better elite.

Way of the Assassin is actually pretty decent for maximizing DPS when you consider the alternatives.

Evil Eye · Feb 27, 2011, 09:49 PM // 21:49

no it is actually pretty stupid since there is already critical agility

Reformed · Feb 27, 2011, 11:24 PM // 23:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil Eye

no it is actually pretty stupid since there is already critical agility

WotA is the best elite skill for DPS on a PvE Sin using daggers. Maybe you don't realize just how good that extra 30%+ critical hit chance is? Your next closest option is Moebius and not a whole hell of a lot is going to survive multiple DB/MS chains to make it worthwhile.

Every time you land a critical hit Critical Agility automatically goes to the top of the stack which means it will always be the first thing stripped and it's impossible to cover. It's also clunky as an enchant based IAS when you have stance options available. If the issue is armor then use the proper insignia and consider IaU which stacks beyond the armor cap anyways.

Zodiac Meteor · Feb 28, 2011, 12:18 AM // 00:18

Hey, it's a wota sin build! Sadly, that build has been around for 2 years with more useful skills. (hint, repeating strike, no need)

Outerworld I see you there!

Anyways, it's on PvX, go check it out.

http://www.gwpvx.com/PvX_wiki

syphonus · Feb 28, 2011, 01:25 AM // 01:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reformed

WotA is the best elite skill for DPS on a PvE Sin using daggers. Maybe you don't realize just how good that extra 30%+ critical hit chance is? Your next closest option is Moebius and not a whole hell of a lot is going to survive multiple DB/MS chains to make it worthwhile.

Every time you land a critical hit Critical Agility automatically goes to the top of the stack which means it will always be the first thing stripped and it's impossible to cover. It's also clunky as an enchant based IAS when you have stance options available.

There's no reason not to use both. 33% IAS is invaluable for sins even if it's enchant based, and there's no real killer utility you can fill that slot with anyway since AScan was nerfed to hell.

WotA and CE get stacking penalized so you won't get even close to +30% CH from it, but it's still the best option in terms of overall DPS and energy management. It's also a fallback when CA gets stripped. Moebius is garbage in a JS>FF>DB build.

ruk1a · Feb 28, 2011, 01:25 AM // 01:25

critical agility is terrible if it were a stance it would be worth a slot but i prefer wota. it doesn't get stripped every 4 seconds.

Reformed · Feb 28, 2011, 02:16 AM // 02:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by syphonus

WotA and CE get stacking penalized so you won't get even close to +30% CH from it...

Yes, yes, diminishing returns because of multiplicative not additive. It still makes a big difference in your overall critical percentage because it's the largest single source thrown into the pile. Enough anyways that you will notice when it's gone much like if you ran a different mastery line without using WotM for some reason.

For my own use I'm comfortable with just WotA by itself, daggers are certainly fast enough. Using OPs spec it's +19% which is 1.0773 or .1862 seconds slower than maximum. You should be following the current meta and cycling JS/FF/DB as fast as you can so I highly highly doubt you will miss those ~2 tenths of a second with .5 sec activating lead and offhand.

Killed u man · Feb 28, 2011, 02:21 AM // 02:21

You guys are overstimating the damage from critical hits.

Unbuffed, a critical dagger attack will do like what, 15 damage on a PvE HM monster? And a non crit hit will do around 7 or 8 orso.

Don't misread this as: "Critical hits are useless", just read it as: "+ Damage is far more important than critical hits. FAR MORE"

Reformed · Feb 28, 2011, 02:44 AM // 02:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

You guys are overstimating the damage from critical hits.

Nobody brought up damage from criticals?

It's the engine that fuels Assassin attack skill spamming, you'd be foolish to not want the rate as high as possible. Gives you more breathing room to cycle your chain on recharge along with personal buffs/support skills (EBSoH comes to mind). Lower rate means you need to stop to auto with a zealous set rather than getting to the +damage sources you mentioned such as the ones on FF and DB.

syphonus · Feb 28, 2011, 02:55 AM // 02:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

You guys are overstimating the damage from critical hits.

Unbuffed, a critical dagger attack will do like what, 15 damage on a PvE HM monster? And a non crit hit will do around 7 or 8 orso.

Don't misread this as: "Critical hits are useless", just read it as: "+ Damage is far more important than critical hits. FAR MORE"

No one is arguing otherwise-- most of your +damage is coming from team buffs to begin with. There aren't many standout elites for sins and WotA does the best job in terms of cranking out a few extra DPS. The energy gain is actually more significant.

EDIT: Reformed beat me to it

Chthon · Feb 28, 2011, 07:29 AM // 07:29

1. OP, your build is awful. Tyris Requiem (among many other people) summarizes why: Spamming Death Blossom is better.

1.5. In fact, the PvE dagger sin build is pretty much locked into one template:
JS+FF+DB+SY!+CritEye+some kind of IAS. Everything else is just going to be inferior.

2. Re WotA: I've expressed my opinion before, but I guess the slightly changed circumstances justify getting back into this:
2.1. Unless you're running Essence (and remember that the WotA sin was invented during RARE's UW runs that always had Essence) WotA is always going to be pretty bad IAS. It matters because you are forced to cancel the second auto out of JS->FF->DB->auto->auto->repeat or delay the next JS to complete the auto. Both hurt DPS significantly. So: If no Essence, run Crit Agility or Drunken Master + booze for IAS. You can skill run WotA on top of another IAS, but it's really questionable.
2.2. Moebius Strike is more DB and better DPS overall (enough so to justify the zealous daggers) unless you generally kill your targets on the first DB. (Back to those RARE UW runs -- things got to a point where everything was dying on the first DB.) Now that AScan and BuH are both gone, killing things on the first DB is going to be a lot harder to manage. More reason to bring back MS.
2.3. That leaves me thinking the best best all-purpose build right now is going to be JS+FF+DB+MS+SY!+CritEye+CritAgility+Some PvE skill. The real question is what PvE skill to fill in the blank with. (Club of a THousand Bears used to hold that position before people realized to stack AScan on top of SoH/Orders/GDW; maybe it should come back out?)

FoxBat · Feb 28, 2011, 08:54 AM // 08:54

Club of a what? Brawling Headbutt is the skill there for KD. Or possibly battle standard honor to buff nearby damage.

HigherMinion · Feb 28, 2011, 09:09 AM // 09:09

I tested spamming Repeating Strike against Autoattacking with Locust's Fury active.

Autoattacking won by a loong shot. That was without buffs.

Outerworld · Feb 28, 2011, 10:43 AM // 10:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor

Outerworld I see you there!

????

Anyway repeating strike is bad as others have summarised.

Xenomortis · Feb 28, 2011, 11:30 AM // 11:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

2.3. That leaves me thinking the best best all-purpose build right now is going to be JS+FF+DB+MS+SY!+CritEye+CritAgility+Some PvE skill. The real question is what PvE skill to fill in the blank with. (Club of a THousand Bears used to hold that position before people realized to stack AScan on top of SoH/Orders/GDW; maybe it should come back out?)

My last H/H attempts in Slaver's HM (before the change to AScan) reminded me how painfully low the crit rates could go when I had to swap out WotA for Fox's Promise. Without that boost maintaining my attacks and Asuran Scan was much harder. Obviously with the new AScan I won't have that issue (but I'll have a lower damage output overall, although I do have a habit of target swapping anyway).
The IAS only makes a noticeable difference to Death Blossom and I never really missed it. The big limiting factor to WotA bars over MS bars is the recharge on Fox Fangs.